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Everything you learned about the horrors of nationalism and the importance of multilateral and supranational organizations like the United Nations is wrong, says JNS editor-in-chief Jonathan Tobin. Much of the West has been taught to denigrate the idea of faith in a system of independent sovereign states after World War Two and to support systems that undermine them. But the truth is that the most likely source of hate, bigotry and oppression in the 21st century doesn’t come from nationalists but from liberals and leftists who seek to impose their ideas on the world by any means necessary. He’s joined in this week’s episode of Think Twice by Yoram Hazony, author of the seminal 2018 book The Virtue of Nationalism, which has just been republished in an updated edition. He points out that though modern liberals have accepted the idea that Adolf Hitler’s Nazism was a natural consequence of German nationalism, the truth is that it was a scheme for imperial domination, much like the ambitions of Napoleon and Stalin. It had nothing to do with the notion of an international order of independent sovereign states that, as Hazony writes, despite the fact that all nations are flawed, is the best recipe for freedom. Moreover, he points out that the contemporary push to downgrade national freedom in favor of globalism and the rule of international organizations like the United Nations or the European Union is another instance of that same desire for imperial rule in which elites in one place seek to dominate other nations. Hazony believes the anti-Zionism and antisemitism directed at Israel is in large measure derived from the resentment of Marxists and Europeans who have lost faith in the rights of their own countries to national independence and sovereignty feel about the Jewish state’s willingness to fight for its right to exist and thrive. In this way Israel nationalism is viewed as unacceptable and paradoxically linked to the intolerance of the Nazis when, in fact, Zionism is a rational and much needed response to the powerlessness and lack of national sovereignty of the Jews during the Holocaust. The intolerance of these anti-nationalists on the left for those, like Israelis, who resist their diktats, is, he said, similar to the way all true believers in an ideological faith regard those who resist their ideas. That, along with traditional antisemitism, is fueling the fires of hatred against Israel. Hazony, who leads the Edmund Burke Foundation which has organized several National Conservative conferences in Europe and the United States since his book was first published admitted that he was troubled by the growth of anti-Israel sentiment among some American conservatives since the Hamas-led Palestinian Arab attacks on Israel on Oct. 7, 2023. Most American conservatives have embraced President Donald Trump’s version of nationalism which is very supportive of Israel. But some figures, who Hazony labeled as “alt-right” seek to push Jews out of the conservative movement and are hostile to the Jewish state. That’s creating a problem for the Trump administration. Their need to keep their electoral coalition intact may be setting up a situation where they need to confront people like former Fox News host Tucker Carlson but are “hesitant” to do so. But the author said he still has hope that it will do so in a firm way. CHAPTERS 00:00 Intro — Nationalism vs. Globalism setup 01:15 “Nazism ≠ Nationalism” — reclaiming the term 03:10 Globalism as empire — UN/EU and the democracy deficit 05:05 EU/Brussels criticism — “new empire” argument 07:00 Locke & Jefferson challenged — conservative founders revisited 09:05 The new political split — nationalists vs. globalists 11:20 Israel as a nationalist model — why it’s targeted 13:25 Antisemitism on the right & the alt-right problem 15:30 “Never Netanyahu” vs. “Resistance” — legitimacy crises compared 17:45 Closing takeaways — what independence really protects Listen/Subscribe to weekly episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, iHeart Radio or wherever you listen to your podcasts. If you liked this episode, watch more Think Twice here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsksduy16U5Kb-ZQdW5aIj7xGhY1kk6i0&si=ar3F8TsXM898lAJi Watch new episodes every week by subscribing to the JNS YouTube Channel. Become a JNS Channel Member: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC24cdDLzkNJf2_CNNzdI-UQ/join