What Trump’s ‘Big, Beautiful Bill’ Is Really Doing (Part 2) | The Ezra Klein Show

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Trump’s “big, beautiful bill” is the cruelest and most irresponsible piece of domestic legislation to be seriously proposed in my lifetime. When you think about this bill, you should think about risk. It would increase our risk of a fiscal crisis by adding a hefty sum to our nation’s debt, at a time when we’re alienating the countries that typically buy our debt. It would slash food stamps and strip health insurance from millions of people, increasing the risk that the safety net won’t be able to catch any of us, at a time when President Trump’s tariffs have increased the risk of a recession. It’s what I’m calling the Big Budget Bomb. And if it passes, we’ll all be in the blast radius. My guest today is Catherine Rampell. She’s an opinion columnist at The Washington Post and an anchor on MSNBC. She’s been covering this closely, so I asked her to come on the show to help talk through all the different risks this bill brings. Editor’s note: This episode was recorded before the House passed Trump’s domestic policy package. 0:00 Intro 0:22 The transfer of wealth 2:05 Debt burden 12:15 Tax cut package 14:38 Medicaid 34:21 Raising taxes on the wealthy? 42:33 Clean energy tax credits 47:28 Redistributing from old to young 51:33 Funding ICE detention facilities 56:05 Book Recommendations Read the full transcript here: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/23/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-catherine-rampell.html Watch more on @EzraKleinShow Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html