Video Description

The tariffs President Trump unveiled this week were both bigger than most people expected and a lot more confusing. These aren’t the flat tariffs he proposed during the campaign. And they aren’t reciprocal tariffs, as he claimed in his Rose Garden speech. So what is Trump actually doing here? I knew my former colleague Paul Krugman would have some thoughts. Krugman is a Nobel laureate trade economist who was a New York Times Opinion columnist for 25 years. He now writes an excellent newsletter on Substack, where he’s been trying to make sense of the theories behind Trump’s tariff policies and, now, their strange reality. 0:00 Intro 1:11 Liberation Day 3:45 What is a trade deficit? 9:11 Market reaction 13:33 Trade war 21:37 Contradictory policy 30:03 The emperor has no clothes 39:32 MAGA’s relationship to U.S. power 45:38 Case for tariffs 50:36 Book recs Read the full transcript here: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/05/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-paul-krugman.html Watch more on @EzraKleinShow Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. Thumbnail Credit: Haiyun Jiang for The New York Times