Cop's Lawyer Debates Active Shooting Response w/ Military & Police Instructor

Video Description

Adrian Gonzales' co-instructor for a law enforcement course on how to respond to active shooters was not a helpful witness for the defense, so his lawyer Nico LaHood tried to combat his testimony in cross-examination. Michael Witzgall, who was a member of the U.S. Marine Corps' elite reconnaissance team, seemed to handle his questions well. (You can watch Witzgall testify in direct-examination with Prosecutor Bill Turner here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iP_vWOraTU) Gonzales, a now-former Uvalde, Texas, school district police officer on trial for child endangerment for his slow response to the May 24, 2022, mass shooting at Robb Elementary School that killed 19 children and two adults. Witzgall testified today (Wednesday, January 14, day 6) as a court-qualified expert in law enforcement training and procedures. It was his first time testifying as an expert. (To get qualified, he testified outside the presence of the jury for about 16 minutes. He was shown on camera then. You can watch here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Kpiff6M2E) 01:49 "He took multiple courses from me. Active shooter was just one of them." 02:59 "We have to stop the killing, right? And I want to talk about that, because there's also another concept of we cannot use reckless abandonment either," LaHood says 03:51 "And you also stated on direct-examination that we are trained to never operate alone." "We start learning that in the academy," Witzgall says 04:36 "If I was your football coach, and I told you .... 'Mike, go in the game.' Your response would be, 'Alight, Coach. How?'" LaHood says "I'm sorry, sir, with my coaches, it would have been, 'Yes, sir,' and I moved out. But I do understand and agree with what you are saying." 05:20 "Someone tells you to stop the killing. How? How do you stop the killing?" "Okay, sir, I've got to close - close width. I've got to maneuver up and neutralize whatever is causing the killing." (It's amazing to me how the questions here are actually multi-paragraph statements and no one seems to mind.) 09:10 "Okay, so that's an example of stress inoculation, and that matters because, because then you're not only training your your body, but you're also training your mind," LaHood says 09:47 "Yes, sir, what you're describing is affectionately known as tunnel vision..." 13:10 "You notice something about your own training. You notice somebody without glasses?" LaHood says "My instructor should have picked that up right away," Witzgall says. "Ladies and gentlemen, I probably would have hit the ceiling. 16:20 "I don't know if we used it in Adrian's class. We do have airsoft handguns that we make them go back and forth. I don't know. I'm sorry. I've slept since then. I don't know if we did that in his class." 22:42 "You can't just kick open a door on an outward swinging door because of the jam and the way it opens? "That is correct." 24:08 "Part of the course rationales is active shooter situations evolve quickly and and there is no way to anticipate their course or direction of action." 25:03 "So the fact that there's a crash is not normal for an active shooting situation or a school shooting, right?" "The only one, sir, that actually comes to mind is San Bernardino, and that was more terrorism than it was, but they did shoot quite a few people." 26:08 "It is called first responder negotiations, and I recommend all police officers take that course," Witzgall testifies 26:40 "Sir, please understand, ladies and gentlemen, I am not — even now, I'm not allowed to disrespect, show anger or say my training is better about somebody else's training. Please understand that. I felt that we had to train on all these other locations. Other people do not." 27:51 "Ladies and gentlemen, please understand that I don't ever endorse an officer doing something by himself, but if people are dying, then you've got to get in there and stop it." 31:07 "On direct you said that there are curriculum that say that you should wait for two or three guys to show up before you act." "Yes, sir, there is." 31:22 "I've never really agreed with it, because I understand that an officer, almost every officer, I know, if they're there and they can stop it, they're going to go for it," Witzgall testifies 33:20 eyewitness: "If they're trying to give me some type of description, I'm going to try and roll with it, sure, until or unless something better comes out," Witzgall testifies 33:33 "And so you when you mean roll with it, you don't mean out on it immediately. You just mean, do some assessing, right?" "I'm going to start moving that direction, sir, based on other information." 35:10 Turner begins re-direct 36:18 "People are dying. So you have to move quick." 38:28 LaHood begins re-cross ****************************************************************************** Subscribe to Legal Affairs and Trials with Meghann Cuniff: https://www.legalaffairsandtrials.com/subscribe